Religion and Toilet Paper

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura)
11/01/2019 at 14:46 • Filed to: None

Remember the pastor in Tampa that got arrested for holding prayer services in spite of COVID restrictions? (He declared that his megachurch is an essential business on his Twitter feed, apparently.) That’s who we’re talking about here.

And regarding sources, I am grabbed by this Pulpit & Pen site because they’re !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , but also seemingly unafraid to call out so called Christian leaders who behave like lunatics. So I’m going to begin paying regular attention to this site. Just because some source is whatever , that doesn’t make them not a useful or helpful source.

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DISCUSSION (23)

WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/31/2020 at 14:53

Christians give Christians such a bad name.....

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI
03/31/2020 at 14:56

Word.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/31/2020 at 15:07

That “pastor” is leading a church of him, not God. A nyone seriously practicing Christianity as it is laid out in the Bible has a very good reason to call out such behavior . More alarming than the rapid spread of churches that reject even the most basic beliefs required to call yourself a Christian is the fact that there are people who wake up every Sunday morning for what is essentially a storytime.

Regardless of what you think about God, we all plainly see one thing: Atheists don’t want these people to attend a weaksauce church because they are placing their faith in something that doesn’t exist; Christians who live out the Bible every day don’t want them hearing feel-good messages about how God will give them a happy easy life because the Bible guarantees pretty much the exact opposite.

This is not a discussion on the merits of religion, but very few of the people attending these “churches” have any real convictions or backbone, declining to believe any of the hard parts of the faith. They would tarnish the image of pretty much whatever group they associate with.

PS9 > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/31/2020 at 15:16

That is neither a helpful nor useful source of information. Observe this headline ;

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This makes it sound like all LGBTQ groups everywhere are trying to shove everyone and anyone out of the way to get treated for the virus, but this is not backed up by their own source ; The ask was for inclusion and consideration in the response to the virus. No requests for prioritization of treatment were asked for, which makes this headline a lie. If they’re tempted to fudge the truth to score some points against their political and ideological enemies, they are useless as a source.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
03/31/2020 at 15:22

Lots to think about here. Lemme ruminate on this.

vondon302 > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
03/31/2020 at 15:25

Can I subscribe to your newsletter?

;)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > PS9
03/31/2020 at 15:26

Keep the good, throw out the bad. It’s always interesting to examine a source and their perspective, even if they’re cray-cray. Or haters. Or afraid.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/31/2020 at 15:33

I’ve obviously revealed my worldview bias , but neither side benefits from pseudo-cults thinly disguised by a layer of diluted Christianity (pretty much limited to God exists so listen to me ). The sheer quantity of people attending a storytime session that has no impact on the way they live their lives isn’t good for society no matter which way you look at it.

Christianity is a very difficult religion to accept: It teaches the exact opposite of what you want to hear; you can never ever earn your way to heaven and guarantees that Christians will suffer when they openly live their lives according to what they believe. This does not describe the above pastor or his “church.”

Oppo tends to be a haven for intelligent ideas and this a delicate subject, so I am trusting you will think of this social issue from all angles.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > vondon302
03/31/2020 at 15:37

I appreciate your ability to consider this critical issue with a level head. This is a subject I feel so strongly about that I couldn’t let this pass without expressing my thoughts. Finding someone who will listen to your opinion is all too rare these days.

DipodomysDeserti > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/31/2020 at 15:41

Why didn’t these churches just open up and act like a shelter? House the congregation and quarantine in the church? Wouldn’t really be an issue as long as they accepted that some people might get really sick and die, and they’d be on their own.

These are same type of pastors that like to demonize LDS. Based on all my LDS friends growing up, I’m guessing they already had plenty of TP and food without having to panic buy.

I put my faith in my friends and family, some of whom also put faith in god, and three rolls of TP showed up on my doorstep. Included were some 5.56 rounds, so I knew it wasn’t god.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > PS9
03/31/2020 at 16:03

You’re right. They’re w acko. Hateful. They’d be amusing if they weren’t so scary. Insecure, paranoid haters.

Ash78, voting early and often > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
03/31/2020 at 16:07

Right on.

... God will give them a happy easy life because the Bible guarantees pretty much the exact opposite.

Exactly. To loosely borrow from Buddhism, existence is suffering. The very example of Christian perfection rode into town on a donkey, declared his purpose, didn’t kill anyone, then faced a horrible death after a joke trial and mob rule, hung up next to everyday criminals. Not the grandiose hero that thousands of years of Jewish prophecy had exactly imagined. And far from an easy life.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > WasGTIthenGTOthenNOVAnowbacktoGTI
03/31/2020 at 16:11

See also:

Americans give Americans such a bad name...

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
03/31/2020 at 16:12

(I am in and out of the yard digging post holes for the garden...)

I was open to looking at that source because I want to be open to different views in case my own view of something turns out to be misinformed. I thought this might be a source with something worthwhile, but as I dug the last hole and listened to their podcast, I was disappointed in this.

I will never crouch behind my barricade and hurl (someone else’s) a slogan at you.

As for your worldview, I’m not sure because I don’t want to make any assumptions.

In what I’ve read from you in two replies to me, and one to vondon, I could probably name six different juicy kernels for separate conversations. If I could choose one to begin, it would be about how one cannot “earn” one’s way to their Reward. I paraphrased that a bit. This is not a comment from someone who knows naught of Christian theology. I sat between a couple of Baptists on a flight six months ago and one of them, a pastor, was very keen that I should not think I could somehow earn my way to Paradise.

I’d like to correspond with you further.

vondon302 > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
03/31/2020 at 16:33

Well a well reasoned response is a rarity.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/31/2020 at 16:39

I’m still fairly young and I’ve got a lot more to learn. Fortunately, I realize this and try to keep myself open to new ideas. Especially with theology, you never want to rely completely on one person’s interpretation. And if you believe a book that claims itself to be inerrant, then the source material is always of vital importance.

I enjoyed this conversation. Talking to someone with very different beliefs is the most effective way to find out what you believe, and you always learn more about yourself. It’s unfortunate how defensive many people are at the idea that others can hold different views than their own, which is an important founding principle of the United States. Besides, assaulting someone’s opinion like you would lay siege to a castle rarely does anything but entrench the other. Something more like a parlay is beneficial to both parties, requiring a certain level of mutual trust. You usually have to spend substantial time revealing that you aren’t a bigot, a racist, or an imbecile before you ever think of asking questions about someone’s worldview.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Ash78, voting early and often
03/31/2020 at 16:42

Of course many people conveniently leave out that particular event’s importance in the name of making the religion “ easier ” and “more “ approachable.” If you were to cut out the hard and controversial parts of the Bible, you would be left with something not much longer than the average Craigslist ad.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
03/31/2020 at 16:50

I would add to this: it is fundamentally in the financial best interest of any of these so called religious leaders to keep you in the fold. I wasn’t there, but I’m guessing that Pastor Howard-Browne passed the plates this past Sunday in his prayer meetings before he got arrested.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/31/2020 at 16:53

Undoubtedly, though there is a fine line between getting rich off a congregation and raising funds for community or church use. Some are much more transparent with their use of funds than others.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available
03/31/2020 at 16:56

I hope you do not fear that I am any of those things; you clearly are not.

I enjoy discussing my own beliefs with those of another faith by asking them questions about my own, and letting them tell me how a thing works when viewed through their theological lenses.

Too often, people just go ad hominem and then any spirit of communication immediately evaporates.

But I would like to take up the matter with you of paid clergy and how it’s in their interest to keep you in their flock.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Ash78, voting early and often
03/31/2020 at 16:58

Nobody said it would be easy, only that it would be worth it.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Ash78, voting early and often
03/31/2020 at 17:00

Also: people like to say that God moves in mysterious ways. I see it differently. I think God is a Just god and has a well developed sense of irony.

Have you ever seen “Out of Africa?” Karen Blixon chases the she lion through a thicket of thorns and her faithful servant is pulling thorns from her shoulders and says, “The gods are happy , Memsahib; they toy with us.”

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo
03/31/2020 at 17:03

T hat is just about the most difficult thing for pastors and is usually the origin of trying to water down religion to be “more palatable .” Of course that is only the beginning of this flawed train of thought. Paid clergy is not an easy topic.

I do appreciate your respectful and thoughtful responses, but I would like to wrap up this conversation for the day. Have a good evening.